Okay, we are retreading old ground. Being hopeful about something doesn't make it happen. You can't petition the military. They do things the way they do because that's how they are instructed to do it from the government. You want to change the military? Change the government.

Thinking a military base would adopt state law over federal law is...not looking at the entire picture. If every military base in every state observed local laws over federal ones, the military would have an overwhelming set of arbitrary laws, many of which would conflict with one another. The military doesn't answer to the state it is in, it answers to the federal government. That's how it is, sorry. All the hopeful or foolish thinking in the entire world is not going to change that.

And NO the military DOES NOT CARE! The only thing the military cares about is the safety of their soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen. If someone walks into a gay bar and rumors start, and there is a possibility for hate-inspired violence, the military is going to take steps to prevent that. They work on a case-by-case basis. There is no SECDEFINST that says gays must be kicked out. The military branch will examine the situation. They will, in as many cases as possible, retain the service member and seek alternate means of resolution, including, but not limited to NJP for the people inciting the problems, forfeiture of pay of the inciting individuals, reassignment of any or all service members, counseling, human sensitivity and leadership classes, temporarily assigned duties, or extra duties, among other things. In most cases, separation of the gay service member is a last resort. The reason so many people think that gays are separated based solely on their sexuality is because that makes good journalism. Those are the only cases you hear about out of the military. You never hear the story of how everything was solved amicably because that makes a shitty news bite. I know the situation because I spent more than 6 years in the military, and I sat in on several NJP's and court martials dealing with the aforementioned subject matter, and the gay was not always the victim! I had to go to bat for my sailors more times that I would have liked, and every case was different. Every case boiled down to the same thing though, did someone violate the UCMJ and is someone in danger?

I'm telling you the cold, hard, facts. There is absolutely NO opinion in anything I've said up to this point. This is the way things are in reality. You want something different? Talk to your government officials.

I've known 2 people who have been kicked out of the military. One of them was because they were caught going to a gay bar and rumors started. The people I know seem to have experienced something different than you have. You might be very well telling the truth, but so am I.

Yeah, the military DOES care. I read a great book by a guy who was in the military his whole life. He got really high up in rank, received a degree from the US Military Academy, and then got Harvard Masters Degree in military strategy. No Joe shmo. He now works as a military contributor for Fox News.

The author is Brian Haig. The book is Mortal Allies. The main topic of the story covers homosexuality and his opinion of it (and other people's opinion of it too) as he tries to break this a complicated bungle in South Korea. One of the best books I have read in ages. Couldn't put it down. Read what he says about it.


(And if you do, read the whole book because otherwise you are going to think the guy is just your typical military homophobe-- he isn't, but he definitely starts out that way.)


He seems to think that homosexuality is a common, controversial, and important issue in the US military, to the people who are in it. And seeing about all of his experience in the military, his degree from the military academy, and his further education in the military field, I tend to believe he knows what he is talking about.

And that is the cold reality.

Well, another thing is--the people who I know that were kicked out are both very effeminate. Nothing against feminine people. But it would seem THAT is what they were targeted for. Maybe there's something I don't know about. I just know that people are being kicked out for their sexuality who should not have been.

No one here should have a problem kicking gays out of the military. All they need to do is say they aren't matching up with Christian values enough. That apparently justifies anything.

_________________

I just think it's sad that someone with a violent crime history is eligible to be in the military, but heaven forbid a rumor goes around that someone might be gay--oh my!

Thats a sad truth. Religion loves to pick on people. Gays, blacks, women, all have been picked on by religion (not just Christianity but that is one example). Religion claims to be so pure, yet it also bullies people.

This example of gays not being allowed in the military is the same.

_________________
Over and over I keep on coming back for more; I play into your fantasy

During the days of Mister Bush Sr, I joined the US Army. I was going to be trained as an interpreter/translator.
When I enlisted, I was directly asked "are you currently having or have you ever had a homosexual relationship?" And, at the time, I could honestly answer "No" to both parts of the question.
Had they asked "Do you look FABULOUS in 3 inch sling-back f-me pumps and a backless black dress?" prior to initiating my background check, they could have saved us both a lot of time, and them a lot of money.
Granted, this was before Don't Ask/Don't Tell/Don't Pursue (funny how people are often oblivious to the third part of that).

Even more odd, I still get recruitment letters from the air force, navy and army on a fairly regular basis. When I'm feeling rather catty, I'll respond and ask them if I will get some kind of assistance to pay for my SRS.

For some reason, the answer is always "no."

Luckily, there has been a big push recently to end the ban of gays in the military. Gates seems intent on changing the policies, at last.

_________________
Political Buddies

Most people in the military nowadays don't care. All along it's been the top leadership (part of the old guard) who have been most strongly opposed.

But you can teach old dogs new tricks...



And that was written in 2007. For something a little more current,


Feb 2, 2010


Feb 3, 2010

_________________
Political Buddies